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Thread: Fixing red light of death on X360?

  1. #11
    Junior Member Jasons34's Avatar
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    Microsoft is a bunch of morons. They killed the regular xbox just because they wanted to focus on the 360. So Im guessing that when they come out with their newest console, they will kill the 360? Its pointless. Look at what sony has done. Sony knows that not everyone can afford the ps3, so they still keep the ps2 running. And look at what nintendo has done. They still use the NDS and now came out with the dsi. And another thing. Instead of microsoft upping their warrenty, how about they actually go and solve this problem. I read that they changed processors on their newest models which generate less heat but still have the same problem.

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    The Xbox360 RROD is a fundamental design issue and there's nothing Microsoft can do to just "fix" it, without redesigning the console. Which I guess would cost them more than the $1 billion they set aside for 3-year warranty.

    They've always been good at throwing money around, they were just never good at properly testing their products and shipping a final version. It's a pity Xbox360 isn't a software product, otherwise we'd have SP2 by now and most things would work fine

    Having taken apart two 360's that died from RROD and fixing both, I can tell you that they've tried to improve the heating a bit, by adding a heatpipe and another small heatsink to the graphics chip. The one with the extra cooling was 2 years newer. Also the power supply is smaller, so I'm guessing the CPU is a die-shrunk one with less power consumption and thus less heat output.

    But the problem is the graphics chip and the conditions under which it runs. Microsoft are forced (at least in europe) to use lead-free solder for environmental reasons, and it's prone to cracking (tiny hairline cracks) in extreme conditions. Those extreme conditions are unfortunately constant in the Xbox360. The graphics chip sits underneath the DVD drive and there is no room for decent cooling. They've put on it a wide heatsink which has few fins, widely spread apart. Anyone can tell you it's not good, heat dissipation depends on surface area, the more fins the better, the taller they are the better, the thinner they are the better (as you can fit them more densly).

    This chip gets extremely hot, I'd guess it can go over 80 degrees no problem, and then when you're finished it cools down to room temperature (20 degrees?). Keep doing that and the solder will crack and you get RROD.

    The fix? Heat up the graphics chip to melt the solder underneath it and cool it back down... lol but it works

    I'd guess that the watercooled ones never break down. They get the smallest temperature fluctuations which is good for all the components.

    M$ could put in a slimline DVD drive and get more heatsink space for the graphics chip, or redesign the console to allow more room for it... but i guess that all costs more money than they want to spend.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamestuff View Post
    Sorry i stand corrected, nintendo does outsell microsoft who outsells sony.

    Aprils numbers:
    * DS - 1,040,000
    * Wii - 340,000
    * Xbox 360 - 175,000
    * PS2 - 172,000
    * PS3 - 127,000
    * PSP - 116,000


    yes the e74 was not under warranty until recently but that being said at least microsoft stepped up to bat and dealt with the issue.

    obvoiusly everyone in here is going to have a bais for Wii, but all i'm saying is the XBOX 360 is still a very good machine despite its problems.

    and no im not a spam bot. When i signed up for this forum thats the name i chose... im not here to spam just hopefully help some people out with there xbox problems.
    Yes but dont worry Sony will catch up, maybe not the psp but the PS3 WILL.

    ive been in the local walmarts here and i find that the PS3systems are never there and still have a bigger section than 360. This is true for many stores.

    The PS3 will last longer since they won the last "Disc War"

  4. #14
    New Member Cressida's Avatar
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    Cool RROD Solutions

    1. The problem as stated is limited cooling and flexing of the board.
    2. It can be fixed by either replacing the thermal paste on GPU/CPU Rarely or X Clamp mod and replace thermal paste.
    The X- Clamp mod is just using washers and grub screws or bolts instead of original clamps, this allows you to apply more pressure pulling GPU tighter onto PCB. When you cook off GPU this remelts solder on legs and fixes any dry or cracked joints. The problem with this is it is very easy to cause permanent damage to MB due to excessive pressure or heat that may not show up straight away.
    3. All these fixes are temporary due to heat generated in case.
    4. You can do 12v mods on fans which cools better or modify fan cowling for better flow, but I can guarantee eventually it will red light again.

    NB: The best fix I have seen is the PCB transferred into a LIAN-LI case purpose built for XBOX 360 MB this is basically a aluminum mini tower with capacity to run 6 fans. Which means it will be running at a much lower temperature.

    Hope this is of some use.

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    Ok, looks like I finally got it fixed a bit more long-term. Whatever I tried so far I got RROD back in a few hours or days.

    In the end, I put the X-clamp back, but replaced the plastic bit with some thick padding, and put the x-clamp-mod bolts through it, like I've seen on the "ultimate rrod fix".

    It turns out the case is uneven, so I sanded off the middle two standoffs to bring them down to level (they should be 3mm high, instead they're 3.75mm high and cause the board to flex).

    Even that didn't fix it, there was still flex in the middle, so I cut off the center of the case (metal case, not the outside plastic shell) where the X-clamps go. And now finally it's working fine.

    I'm tempted to cut an opening on the top of the case for a 120mm fan and run that off 5v for extra cooling without much noise. But I'd be happy if the damn thing just stays working.

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    I just attempted to fix 3 RROD xboxs today,

    used the Team Xecuter RROD PRO repair kits. 2 of the 3 repaired no problems, the third one has been through alot so i wasn't expecting it to be coming back to life. Overall seems like a solid fix kit.

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    I've used the cheapest possible, bunch of washers, spring washer on the back, and bolts so you can tighten it real well. Then I did what team hybrid suggest in their ultimate repair, and was really surprised that the case itself is so badly made that it introduces flex in the middle.

    Xbox-experts.com Xbox 360 Repair/Modding - Tutorial Team HYBRID's Ultimate X-Clamp Fix (RELEASED!)

    Instead od buying their kit I just used what I had, chopped the end bits off the x-clamps and put two layers of foam padding between the clamp and the board (they suggest 4mm so it's about that much).

    The only difference really is that I didn't go through the back of the case, rather I mounted the clamps on to the board and cut off the center of the case to allow for extra height. I didn't have bolts long enough so the decision was made for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dezmond View Post
    The Xbox360 RROD is a fundamental design issue and there's nothing Microsoft can do to just "fix" it, without redesigning the console. Which I guess would cost them more than the $1 billion they set aside for 3-year warranty.

    They've always been good at throwing money around, they were just never good at properly testing their products and shipping a final version. It's a pity Xbox360 isn't a software product, otherwise we'd have SP2 by now and most things would work fine

    Having taken apart two 360's that died from RROD and fixing both, I can tell you that they've tried to improve the heating a bit, by adding a heatpipe and another small heatsink to the graphics chip. The one with the extra cooling was 2 years newer. Also the power supply is smaller, so I'm guessing the CPU is a die-shrunk one with less power consumption and thus less heat output.

    But the problem is the graphics chip and the conditions under which it runs. Microsoft are forced (at least in europe) to use lead-free solder for environmental reasons, and it's prone to cracking (tiny hairline cracks) in extreme conditions. Those extreme conditions are unfortunately constant in the Xbox360. The graphics chip sits underneath the DVD drive and there is no room for decent cooling. They've put on it a wide heatsink which has few fins, widely spread apart. Anyone can tell you it's not good, heat dissipation depends on surface area, the more fins the better, the taller they are the better, the thinner they are the better (as you can fit them more densly).

    This chip gets extremely hot, I'd guess it can go over 80 degrees no problem, and then when you're finished it cools down to room temperature (20 degrees?). Keep doing that and the solder will crack and you get RROD.

    The fix? Heat up the graphics chip to melt the solder underneath it and cool it back down... lol but it works

    I'd guess that the watercooled ones never break down. They get the smallest temperature fluctuations which is good for all the components.

    M$ could put in a slimline DVD drive and get more heatsink space for the graphics chip, or redesign the console to allow more room for it... but i guess that all costs more money than they want to spend.
    Actually Microsoft fixed this problem a long time ago. The problem was that they used they wrong type of lead free solder on the board. Because heat caused the board and components to expand, this eventually weakened the solder and caused circuit problems.

    Had mine replaced free 2 years ago, and no problem since.

    The Wii is a great console, but so is the 360, although the MS haters out there wont admit that.

  9. #19
    New Member Cressida's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crn5008 View Post
    Actually Microsoft fixed this problem a long time ago. The problem was that they used they wrong type of lead free solder on the board. Because heat caused the board and components to expand, this eventually weakened the solder and caused circuit problems.

    Had mine replaced free 2 years ago, and no problem since.

    The Wii is a great console, but so is the 360, although the MS haters out there wont admit that.
    That is not correct, I have had XBOX360's especially arcade consoles RROD within 1 week from purchase.

    As posted previously all the problems are design failures, and unless they change the design in the 720 when it is released they will have the same problem.

    Using smaller CPU die size made it run cooler, but 90% of the time it is GPU solder problem. Alluminium Heatsink, and heatpipe didn't fix problem.

    Had they have not scrimped on materials when it went to market originaly, I wouldn't be writing this post.

    Hopefully they will fix the problems in the 720.
    GOOD MEN SLEEP SOUNDLY
    AT NIGHT,
    KNOWING THAT ROUGH MEN
    STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF IF THEY DON'T INSTALL IOS 38, 53, 55.

    Press at the bottom right of the post if this response was of any assistance.

  10. #20
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    Any fix that does not actually reflow the solder and create a solid joint is only a temporary fix. By overheating the system and putting on washers and machine screws instead of the xclamps you're compressing the gpu while heating which will expand the solder joints under the bga and create an electrical connection. This will however fail again in time due to the constant heating and cooling of the 360.

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