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Thread: Thoughts about the forum...

  1. #1
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    Thoughts about the forum...

    I have spent the better part of 5 days reading hundreds of threads and thousands of posts here at wiihacks, koureio, gbatemp, etc. While this site is a wealth of information, it is one of the most frustrating forums I have ever visited. While I think peoples intentions are good, the information presentation is a disaster.

    Those of you "in-the-know" appear to have fogotten the level of complexity that a person new to wii modding is faced with. Most of you either live eat and breath wii modding or have been around from the early days and have been able to absorb your knowledge as the hardware and software has evolved. It would help if most of you took a moment to realize that MOST people don't want to fully partake in the "scene" and become gurus, they instead want help FROM gurus to get their systems up and running. I am an advanced electronics hobbyist, programmer and IT technician, yet after spending days reading, I now have more questions than I did before I started! Most of the questions are simple but I have not seen them directly answered after days of reading. I (like most people) don't want to spend weeks weaving my way through thousands of posts to learn something that is pretty well a a hard science.

    It would appear to me that those if you in-the-know need to consider organizing the learning material in such a way that questions don't need to be asked over and over again and where the information can be easily updated. Answers can be linked to instead of the canned "use the search" response. Using the "search" on a site like this is akin to going down Alice's rabbit hole. There are no clear answers and only more questions to be asked. It never ends, not to mention many searches lead to "use the search" posts or long outdated information. You may know what is outdated, but someody searching for help has no way of knowing what is relevant, let alone safe. Honestly, Moderators should spend more time moderating content not sending people to the search button. The irony is that most people seeking help are labled as lazy for not searching, yet sending people to the search instead of helping is the definition of lazy.

    Of couse it gets old answering the same question over and over. The site would be much more useful if ALL of the senior helpers and moderators followed the same conventions and put coordinated effort into cleaning up the information overload into something more usable. If they information was distinctly defined and easy to find, then the "teachers" would clearly not need to spend as much time answering the same questions over and over.

    You have GUIDES and FAQs that go on for hundreds of posts drifting in and out of relevant subjects. Instead of constantly posting "use the search" why don't you clean up the GUIDES and FAQs and keep them locked? Update them with releveant steps and information as it evolves in the general or topic specific forums. You have numerous GUIDES that overlap, have different steps and softoware and/or contradict each other. This in itself creates a large portion of the "stupid questions" because n00bs can't find a distinct answer.

    Even non-technical types and idiots can follow a flow chart. The evolution of SOFTMODS on different hardware and software platforms could easily be mapped directly to a flow chart, as could the selection of HARDMOD devices and operating instructions.

    A single flowchart (either graphical or weblink based) could easily answer 99.99% of the "how do i" and "why do I" and "what happens if" questions. Instead of posting "use the search", you could direct people to the flow chart. A flowchart could easily elmininate most of the wandering "sticky" threads and could easily be updated to accomodate new hardware and/or software release from both the community and N.

    It amazes me how powerful the web and computers are and how most information gets lost in wikis, forums and blogs. Good grief, use the power of the technology to create an interactive information model, not a flat jumbled information overload blender.

  2. #2
    Junior Member freddy1023's Avatar
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    No offence to wiihacks, but i agree with this guy.

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    Junior Member Jasons34's Avatar
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    I disagree because I have seen the questions people have asked on here and they are down right pathetic questions and I find right afterwards using the search feature. You can see that I became a member last may which is when I modded my wii. Out of all the posts I have made, I think I have only started maybe 3 threads. Everything else I have learned by reading the guides and threads people have started. I do think this site is a mess BUT its only a mess because people continue to ask pointless questions. Not to mention that someone will ask a question in the introduction section. I have heard questions as bad as "Do I need to hack my wii in order to play backup games?" Cmon now that is by far the dumbest question I have ever heard. I think things would get better if the moderators instead of just closing threads, would also send those members to the RR or ban them. I have seen members create multipull threads about the same exact thing but only make the title alittle different hoping people read it and dont close it.
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    Junior Member freddy1023's Avatar
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    I did'nt say that wiihacks was a mess... but this is true that the informations is just everywhere. I always use the search button before asking a question, but sometime i cant find an answers to my question so i do start a new thread. Whenever i start a thread, no one answer back to my question.

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    Retired WiiHacks Staff ShadowSonic2's Avatar
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    You're saying you can't find a clear answer by searching. There's also an index you can use:

    There are also certain ways to search inorder to find an answer. Also to clear up some things, we've locked and archived outdated tutorials. The tutorials here are still up to date.

    All questions that us mods lock are answered by tutorials. We do not lock them because we think the person is dumb but because the answer is clear.


    The reason why we leave the tutorials unlocked so members who have an unusual problem may ask for help.

    As for banning them, that might not accomplish anything. Maybe RR since they will still be allowed to read but not post.

  6. #6
    Junior Member Jasons34's Avatar
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    Not just banning for dumb questions but I have seen a few members get a thread locked on them because it was a pointless question only to have that same member start a new thread but with the same question. I will admit though that I do see some moderators being rather quick to lock a thread when I feel it was a good question. I also think that instead of starting a new thread about something that was answered in a guide, you should instead ask the question in that guides thread. But it still comes down to people asking the same questions over and over again. For instance theres been a fix for NSMB. Davepm has a guide out that I have read, tried all methoda, and all methods worked. So I know there shouldnt be questions still asked about that game, yet there still are.
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    Thank you for your politely worded comments. Your observations on the Guides and Tutorials reflects a recent misunderstanding that developed after a change in the server software. The Guides and Tutorials, themselves, do not go on for hundreds of pages. The first post of a tutorial or guide is the current version and is updated and maintained by the originating moderator-check the revision date at the bottom of the tutorial.

    The site originally had these tutorials show up on the top of each screen, so no matter which post page one was on, the tutorial would "stick" on top. This made it clear what that guide or tutorial really was-a guide with follow-up posts of Q&As over time. Unfortunately, several important web search engines penalized our site for that function deeming those "sticky" tutorials as redundant, repetitive pages.

    You will recall that, until fairly recently, Wiis were in short supply and so the owners tended to be those with extra motivation. The site membership has grown very rapidly over a short time with the nature of the membership also shifting. The wiihacks staff and moderators are continually working on site improvements and a future "overhaul".

    In the meantime, do not mistake the hundreds of posts attached to a tutorial as representing the tutorial itself-the recommended guides and tutorials are currently designated as Post #1.

    Example:http://www.wiihacks.com/recommended-...d-any-wii.html. Post #1 is the tutorial and was last updated Christmas Eve to add a mirror site. After reading the tutorial, one can post a question or request help and those are the 9000 posts that are in the thread itself.

    Similarly, a guide to playing from an external USB HDD HERE was last updated Dec 30, 2009 to provide additional links. Questions, comments, etc are in the posts in the thread.

    I hope you find the information you require. Good luck.

  8. #8
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    Jason,

    You disagree becuase you missed the point

    1) of course SOME questions are easy to find definitive answers to. The wealth of information here is useable but cumbersome, not useless.
    2) A LOT has changed since MAY (both from N and the hacking community). You had less to absorb than the guy who jumped in yesterday, as did the guy who jumped in 6 months before you... etc.
    3) the size of the forum has (and will continue to) mushroom as time passes, making relevant answers even more ambiguous and hard to find. The ever changing software and hardware parameters make the task of learning even harder.
    4) you MISSed the entire point. Better organization of information would mean less stupid questions. Novel huh?
    5) what YOU may think is a stupid questions is clearly not stupid to the person asking it or they would not have asked it in the first place. See point #4.
    6) sadly, no matter how well information is organized or how kind the teacher is, some people are flat out walking breathing idiots. 50% of the population is one one side of the curve, 50% on the other. Nothing we can do about that.

    The bottom line, there is a much better way to organize and present the information regarding this subject. While a "forum" format is good for open discussion, it lends itself to repetative questions and frustration from both teachers and students. Sadly, the students tend to suffer becuase the teachers spend more time moderating than teaching because the presentation medium and methodology is flawed from the getgo and the content gets lost in the shuffle.

    Don't get me wrong... this site IS a forum and I don't expect that to change. I was just offering some food for thought.. partly out of frustration during my own learning process.
    Last edited by Stinkymarbles; 01-03-2010 at 11:09 AM.

  9. #9
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    @Stinkymarbles-you posted your observations as your first post. If you had posted an introduction to yourself, as your first post, as requested you would have received a welcome post along these lines:

    Hello and welcome to the wiihacks community.

    You have joined the world’s largest Wii modding and forum community. To help you access the useful and relevant information available on this site, it is strongly recommended that you first look at this special site index: Wiihacks Ultimate Index.


    Make sure you read the rules of this site. There are a number of tutorials and guides available to assist you. Many of our new members find the tutorials for softmodding any 3.1-4.1 Wii and any 4.2 Wii particularly useful. Make sure to either look through the site tutorials and guides or use the search function before asking questions. While the moderators, staff, and members of this community are willing to help you, some effort on your part to read, research, and follow the rules is expected. To get the best response to your question(s), post in the associated forum areas. This is very important as inappropriate posting could get you restricted to the reading room or even banned. If, after looking at the tutorials and trying to search, you still need help or just want to post a very basic type of question, go to the http://www.wiihacks.com/wiihacks-newbie-discussions-forum/.

    Wiihacks also has a chat room on irc://irc.uicn.net/wiihacks . After reading the iRC rules, please feel free to join in the light-hearted chats and activities. While any IRC client can connect to #wiihacks on the UICN , there are tutorials to help you connect using either ChatZilla or mIRC.


    If this site and our members have provided substantive help, you can Donate to the forum and get a nice banner under your name and gain access to the donator forums.

    The current hot topic of the site = playing backup copies of the New Super Mario game: http://www.wiihacks.com/wii-games/28...ario-bros.html. Enjoy your stay with us.

  10. #10
    Junior Member Jasons34's Avatar
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    The guides are perfectly fine though. There are 2 types of people when it comes to this site. The kind that actually do the work by searching and read guides to accomplish their hacks, and the kind that are too lazy to look, say they looked yet didnt find, and then post a question others are quick to give links to the answers. I look at it this way... If you post a question and along with that you say you searched and didnt find it, I expect to not be able to find it myself. But when I use the simpliest of terms and find the answer in the first found result, its obviously a pointless question. If your thread says "help I am a noob" or something like that, what do you expect will happen. And dont give me this garbage with people who started this stuff yesterday have it harder than what I did. I just learned how to use triiforce yesterday, had no clue what it was, and was easily able to read a guide and install it.
    If I have helped you in any way, please thank me by pressing the little thanks button.

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