Thx, read that post a few times, I was stupid enough not to install bootmii or a preloader didn't think I would need it, but I like the last option of throwing against the wall, but the wife would complain I would only mark the wall. I have spoken to nintendo and they are going to have a look at it for free. The guy was nice after I told him it was there fault for putting out an update out there that was not tested properly and when I started asking if there was any testing process and cut off points and risk registers, he kind of got the message, anyways thx for your help, I will let you know what they come back with.