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TheBandicootAddict

What would WiiHacks look like if n00bs read this blog?

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by , 10-24-2010 at 11:37 AM (2494 Views)
Today, I was looking around in the Newbie Discussion Forums to see what kind of help some new members were asking. Are you curious what I noticed? Most of the threads contain a question which are ALREADY answered like a 100 times. It's painful, and I'm seriously starting get (fill in to your own personal likings ) at some members who don't search. My personal ''favourite'' is something like this:

hey i accidently updated my we now it wont play my backups and i really want to get everything working again could someone point me in the good direction thanks

To which I answer:

Bothered searching...?

Reply:

yes ive searched but could not find anything sorry (HERE COMES THE EXCUSE ) i am a noob and dont understand wii hacking

WHAT!? ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? There is a guide for firmware 4.3, which is stickied in the Recommended Guides. I do not know if some members expect us to spoon-feed them as well. The worst part is that I usually do so - I am going to stop with that. I can feel the pain of some members who are very active here, and especially the pain of the moderators. Another funny example is a game that is not working... They do manage to post a thread in the hope to get an answer, but they somehow NEVER SEEM TO FIND THE GUIDE! Does WiiHacks seriously need a big banner on the Home-page, with all questions being answered? Or would it also be an option for a member to SEARCH? Please, use this guide to get the best searchresults, people. It may even give you the answer faster, and it's so much less painful for members and the moderators!!


Now on to another part: the rules.
I see a lot of posts where the word ''download'' is included. Seriously, I have the feeling half of the members who just created an account do not read the rules before posting something. The rules are not written for nothing... Krafter once said something I will dearly remember:

Rules... Read them, love them and follow them...
Yes, that is right!!

Something else that I also see every now and then, is how people create a new thread, where they ask a question that can easily be asked in the guide's thread itself... What's wrong? Can you not just post your question there? WHERE IT BELONGS?


I know...I know... I do not think any new member will read this, but it is worth a shot. So, I hope that a ''n00b'' takes the time to read this, and save us from less frustration. It is not that we do not want to help you, but members are getting full of it that we're answering the same questions over and over again, while some of us may could've answered a healthy question, which has never or almost never been answered.

(Oh yeah, members are also supposed to post a welcomingspost: you will receive a lot of useful links!!!)


Links for n00bies that all contain a LOT of INFORMATION:
THE Rules (not ''the Rules'', but ''THE Rules'' )
Become a master in searching
What you must NEVER do
3.1 - 4.1 Softmod Guide
4.2 Softmod Guide
4.3 Softmod Guide
What's a/an (c)IOS?
Apps and WADs explained
Error Index
List of Problematic Games
Extracting IOS needed for a game

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Comments

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  1. cybercrud's Avatar
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    Well said. At the same time, you place a lot of useful information in one place. Too bad n00bs will never find it. Ha!

    In any case, I find the same issues to be true on other forum. I am a leading contributor for Autodesk, for example. Of my nearly 4000 posts, I'd say 90% are always the same issues. Yet, like you I continue to babysit them. Search is beyond their comprehension.

    Anyway, good topic. Unlike other posts, this one needs to be repeated over and over.
  2. narse1979's Avatar
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    Someones ranting this morning ha ha
  3. Bliepo's Avatar
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    I know exactly what you are talking about. I believe that more than 50% of the posts I answer contain questions which have already been answered dozens of times. But that isn't the worst, the worst are all those wii's that were bricked, while most of the time it could have been prevented.

    Anyway, I don't think things will ever change, most people just don't take the trouble to search (which ironically, would take lest time than making a new thread). I guess I'll just continue spoon feeding.
  4. robgee789's Avatar
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    i agree ive seen soooooo many piracy threads it stupid but people just want quick fixes and think were here to give it to them
  5. InvincibleSloth's Avatar
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    @narse1979 - You got that right. Though I do not use coarse language on the forum, I sometimes really say things in my head that are not that nice. :o

    @Bliepo - Yes, I forgot to mention the bricks, but I can not seem to edit the blog...

    It is not a scandal if you brick your Wii, but mauifrog has made so many guides to fix various bricks that it looks almost impossible that threads are being created over and over again. They were too lazy too search or they are ''new to the forum''. :eek:

    @robgee789 - Yep, and the worst thing is when they create a second thread because their threads are closed!! But like I said, this is just a desperate attempt to get the attention of some newcomers, but I have the feeling it is a fail already!! :mad:
  6. Darkcide666's Avatar
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    cybercrud made a good point that this happens on all forums. Imagine how active the site would be and how many members we would have if every new member that asked a question for whatever the reason may be was met with the response, "Use the search noob!". Research proves that's part of why some members are afraid to post on online forums. They are afraid of the senior or more experienced members doing just that and make them look stupid. While it can get annoying sometimes having to reiterate the same information you also have to balance being noob friendly and realize that some people following the guides on here might not be that tech savvy or care that much about learning every little facet of the Wii just to accomplish a simple goal.

    Some of the more senior members like to post pretty much the same solutions to everything anyways so they are just repeating themselves regardless. I would rather see noobs posting issues that we may feel have been covered and providing proper help and understanding than senior members repeating themselves, playing mod, and offering non-useful opinions rather than fact. You don't know how many times I see that and just bite my tongue. Face it people...you are basically providing free technical support. If you are too annoyed by someones problem or post then don't respond. Not even jumping in is better than proving no help what so ever in your post and berating the OP for not searching or understanding.

    As for the piracy thing...Well that's just plain stupid and inexcusable in my eyes.
  7. InvincibleSloth's Avatar
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    @Darkcide666 - I agree, but it is not like we do not help the people in the Newbie Section... I am just saying that it gets a pain. Now and then, I answer with Have you tried searching?, but most of my posts in that section answer the question.

    It may not all be that worse as my posts says, but if you get frustrated, you're really frustrated. And I am sure some other members feel this pain every now and then, too.

    I really understand your point, though. :)
  8. Darkcide666's Avatar
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    @TheBandicootAddict - I've been occasionally guilty of it also. I also tend to try to guide someone to solution rather than outright giving them the answer...unless their is no way around it. Tech support is sometimes frustrating. I remember a particular thread I was involved in here where the OP just couldn't get the concept of such simple things as creating a folder at the root of your SD. I was literally about to start yelling at my screen! Luckily we have other sections to relax in and just socialize or have a good enlightening conversation on our beloved Wii. You could also take up a project such as creating a guide that will benefit noobs and maybe they won't have to ask so many repeated questions. That's kind of why I started my MAME list. It seemed like there used to be a lot of hate toward MAME on here and questions about it but I figured if I show it a little love, create a good compatibility list, provide any assistance, and answer any questions I can then maybe others would love it as much as I do. It doesn't always have to be fixing bricks and updating this or that.
  9. krankor11's Avatar
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    Saw this post here and thought I should respond. I'm a n00b here myself but the problems you describe are common on many larger forums (particularly those dealing with a technical topic). I personally will always attempt to read all the information I can find before asking a question so I'm unlikely to fall into the category of people that frustrate you.

    I haven't attempted it here yet, but searching on a forum isn't always a fantastic experience. It's not uncommon that you will search for a word or phrase that happens to appear in thousands of posts making it difficult to figure out which is the useful one. I think this forum does a good job of keeping its more important guides updated and easy to find (should one bother to read the forum titles and descriptions). Having said that, a forum is rarely a good place for documentation as you have to deal with the bundles of unnecessary and often confusing responses and tangents.

    Ultimately, what will challenge you most as a participant (or expert) on this forum is the often complete lack of technical ability being applied to a technical task. Some guy gets word from his buddy that hacking his Wii is "simple" and thinks he can do it just by typing the URL in his browser. Perhaps he has a DS flashcart and figured that out (congratulations, you know how to copy a file!) so he figures this is the same thing. The reality of course is quite different.

    The only way I can see to combat the problem of pointless or misguided questions is to simply not allow them. Wouldn't make a forum too useful if you couldn't post mind you.
  10. InvincibleSloth's Avatar
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    @krankor11 - Yes, I know it can be all a little hard for a new member to understand all the things related to Wii hacking. The newbie section is not here for nothing, but it's misused sometimes. Like that example I gave when updating to 4.3 and your back-up loaders are not working anymore... All you literally have to do, is look in the guide section, select the 4.3 softmod guide from the stickies and follow the guide.

    I hope you agree with me on the following case. Some people are following a guide, let's say the 3.1-4.1 softmod guide, and then they create a thread in the newbie section where they ask help on completing a step from that softmod guide. This, and the case with the 4.3 update messing up back-up loaders, are the cases which make me start to cry in front of my screen sometimes. By far not every new member does so, but all the unneeded questions are so...unneeded.

    Then you have the extreme cases, and those are as following.
    The first one, is that some members expect us to spoon-feed until they have every single bit of information they need.
    The second one, is that some members post while they ask us on how to run downloaded games. If you have read the rules, what every new member should, you know that asking help is not allowed. ''But I can also just say that I only play back-ups, while it actually are downloaded games!'' Yes, that is possible, but if that is how a member wants to get an answer to their question, I would throw up over them if I would find out. Piracy is just plain stupid, and I am strictly against it. If you download games, it is your own decision, but admit it, and do not change the word ''pirated'' to ''a back-up'' here on the forum.
    And the last one is how people created a second thread once their first one get closed, with an explenation. That is asking for trouble.
  11. InvincibleSloth's Avatar
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    And I forgot to add something, but the Edit button seems to ignore me in blogs... :l

    Some new members may be afraid of the mods and senior members, but you should not be afraid of them. All of them are nice and kind, I know that, but understand that, especially for the mods, it becomes a pain when seeing someone else who has not looked in the guides section, or who has not read the rules. They may look unfriendly in a member his eyes, but I know that all mods and senior members here are nice. Like I said in my blog, it is not that we do not want to help you with your troubles, but there are questions on the forum that are literally answered more than a 100 times.
  12. SarimsterX's Avatar
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    That was a nice read and I totally understand where you're coming from. However, maybe the search bar needs to be more noticeable. I mean it kind of blends in with every thing. I also think that the main reason for new members not reading the rules would be that it looks a bit tedious to read all of that info and they just want a quick fix for their wii related problem, then again if they truly wanted a quick fix they would use the search.
  13. nightstah's Avatar
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    Search bar? We have one of those, where?! J/K, it's fine as is --- the upper right hand corner, it's just the newbs need eyeglasses, trust me
  14. InvincibleSloth's Avatar
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    LOL @ nightstah :011:
  15. NightX's Avatar
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    Some of you take this way to seriously.
  16. SarimsterX's Avatar
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    And you take it way too easy, but I don't complain.
    BTW Lol nightshah
  17. krankor11's Avatar
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    @TheBandicootAddict - The one thing we can never really know is how many people come to this site, read the guides, then never ask a redundant question. I think it's safe to say that the guides are effective for a lot of people even if there are some that never quite figure it out. While I think it's an interesting discussion to consider ways you might reduce the number of bad questions, you can never really expect to eliminate them. The perhaps ironic part is that the more helpful the admins/mods are, the more likely you're going to see these questions repeated.

    People who come to ask about piracy are either ignorant or seriously misguided. It would be completely naive to believe that the majority of people visiting a site such as this aren't interested in piracy but common sense dictates you don't talk about it. It's highly unlikely that someone incapable of following simple instructions is looking to develop or otherwise mess around with legitimate homebrew apps. Plus, the "backup my games" argument, while legitimate for some, is marginal at best. I've been playing games all my life and I've never personally damaged a game beyond use (certainly not within the timeframe in which I still wanted to play it). It'd be a lot simpler to just take care of your stuff than to softmod your Wii People with kids are obviously an exception, but I highly doubt the thousands of visitors that come here every day all have wee ones. The reality is that piracy is a big part of the reason you get those sort of "undesirable" visitors. If you couldn't run "backups" on a softmodded Wii I doubt you'd be complaining too much about "n00bs" asking stupid questions.

    @NightX - I don't think much is accomplished in life without finding ways to take mundane things seriously. Where would we be if Newton thought, "Duh, this sure is a tasty apple!" instead of "Why does the apple fall from the tree?"?
    Updated 10-27-2010 at 06:19 PM by nightstah (Slight Language Edit)
  18. nightstah's Avatar
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    "Backup my games" is hardly marginal in terms of legitimacy. Yes, you mention kids and in that case it's rather obvious for some. What you left out is those that prefer USB HD transfer speeds, and those with D3-2 drive --- piracy or not, they go USB HD.
  19. Darkcide666's Avatar
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    A lot of the things we do are definitely necessary with kids. You should see the DVD collection mine have ruined. USB loading is easier on them too. They can easily select the USB forwarder from the menu and pick a box rather than sift through the physical game boxes. It's so easy my 5 year old can do it. I did like the Newton analogy though. I don't want anyone to think I'm being too soft on noobs from my above posts either. I also think they should do a bit more research and expect less handouts. I have yet to encounter a problem hacking a Wii because anything I've done I've researched to the best of my ability with all available info...Not just on this site. I'm big on going to the developer or programs page for info and reading the included read me or readmii as the like to call them.
  20. krankor11's Avatar
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    @nightstah - Without getting into a debate about piracy (which really isn't worth either of our time) I don't believe backups are even legal in many countries, regardless of how I might agree with them being a valid use case. So essentially the only difference between people who come to the site to make backups and people who come to find ways to play illegally downloaded games is that one is piracy black-and-white and the other is piracy shades-of-gray (for most countries). So while you may acquire a game legally (which is completely commendable in my book) you are likely still breaking the law when you make a backup (particularly if you have to reverse engineer proprietary technology to do so). So my reference to the term "marginal" was meant more to say that it was legally marginal rather than to say that it didn't represent a valid or well-reasoned need.

    All that being said, I would go so far as to say that this entire community exists primarily because you can play backups using a hacked Wii. If you couldn't, there might still be a community around hacking your Wii to run various homebrew applications, but it would likely not have the volume of users that cause the sorts of troubles TheBandicootAddict speaks to in the original post. In other words, if you only want smart, diligent people to use your forum make sure it's about something only smart, diligent people would care about. I'm mostly kidding there but it's still true.
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